Mark 9:19 O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you?...

Spoken to
group

A woman brings her epileptic son to Jesus after his disciples cannot cure him, and scribes argue with her.

KJV

Mark 9:19 O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

NIV

Mark 9:19 You unbelieving generation, how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy to me.

LISTENERS HEARD

Oh! You distrusting type until when will I be before you?  Until when will I myself sustain you? Fetch him before me.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

As we often see, the version here is a shortened version of Matthew.

In Greek, this isn't as negative and critical as the English translation.  The word "generation" means "type" and Jesus uses it to refer to a certain type of people, in this case, the distrusting type. He usually uses this word to refer to his opponents but here he uses it to refer to his followers who could not cure the boy.  The word translated as "faithless/unbelieving" but literally, "not trusting." It mostly appears in versions of this verse. 

Jesus isn't saying that he "suffers/put up with" this type. This word only appears in versions of this verse. He says that he himself must "sustain" it and "hold it up". He doesn't ask for the boy to be bought to him.

 

MY TAKE

To help others, we must trust in something greater.

GREEK ORDER

           γενεὰ ἄπιστος, ἕως    πότε   πρὸς ὑμᾶς  ἔσομαι;      ἕως πότε   ἀνέξομαι                  ὑμῶν;
Oh! You type distrusting until when before you  will I be ?  Until when will I myself sustain you?

φέρετε αὐτὸν πρός με.
Fetch him before me.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
4
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This is not the common word usually translated as "with."
  • WV  - Wrong Voice - The verb is in the middle voice requiring the concept of "myself" as its object.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "suffer" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "to" does not capture the word's specific meaning.

 

# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
9
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "oh" is not shown in the English translation
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "stay" should be something more like "be."
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This is not the common word usually translated as "with."
  • WV  - Wrong Voice - The verb is in the middle voice requiring the concept of "myself" as its object.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "put up" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "with" doesn't exist in the source.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "the" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "boy" should be something more like "be."
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "to" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
EACH WORD of KJV

O --  The "o" is an exclamation "O!" or "Oh!" often used as a mode of address. 

faithless -- The Greek word translated as "faithless" means literally "no faith," but it meant "not to be trusted" and "mistrustful." The word translated as faithless means literally without faith, but not in the sense of lacking religious faith. It means both untrustworthy and distrusting. It carries a sense that someone who is distrusting is also probably untrustworthy.

generation, -- The word translated as "generation" means "race" or "family." It is the word from which we get "genus" in English. The sense is a "type" or a "specimen" of a particular type Jesus uses it to refer to a type of person, specifically those like the Pharisees.

how -- The word translated as "how long" means "until" but it also means "in order that."

long -- The word "long" here means "when", "at what time", "at some time or other", "at some unknown time, and "at some time in the future."

shall -- This is from the future tense of the following verb.

I -- This is from the first-person form fo the following verb.

be -- The verb "be" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. 

with -- (CW)  The word translated as "with" means "towards", "before," "by reason of (for)," and "against."  the sense here is "before." This is not the common "with" that is used in the Matthew version.

you? -- The "you" here is plural, indicating many of Christ's listeners as the object of the verb.

how -- The word translated as "how" means "until" but it also means "in order that."

long -- The word "long" here means "when", "at what time", "at some time or other", "at some unknown time, and "at some time in the future."

shall -- This is from the future tense of the following verb.

I -- This is from the first-person form fo the following verb.

missing "myself"-- (WV) A phrase is necessary because the form of the previous verb is a middle voice, which means that the subject is to  act on "myself," "for myself" or "by myself."

suffer -- (CW)  The word translated as "suffer" primarily means "to hold up", "to lift up", "sustain", "appear," with a lot of related meaning about supporting yourself or others. This word is only used in this verse and its parallel in Matthew and Luke. This is not the "suffer" seen earlier in Mark 9:12.

you?  -- The Greek pronoun "you" here is plural and in the form of an indirect object, "to you", "for you", etc. 

bring -- The word translated as "bring" means "to bear", "to carry", "to bring", "to produce," and "to fetch." It is the base of a lot of words Christ uses commonly, including the words that mean "bring together", "bring to," and "bring through." Its use is more like our use of the word "get."

him -- The word translated as "him" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  The word is an object of the verb, what is brought.

unto  -- (CW) The word translated as "unto" means "towards," "by reason of (for)," "before" both in time and place, "in the presence of," "against," and several other types of "before." This sense here is "before."

me. -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek. An accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

EACH WORD of NIV

missing "Oh"  -- (MW) The untranslated word "o" is an exclamation "O!" or "Oh!" often used as a mode of address. 

You -- This is added to indicate that the following word is in the form of address, using it as a term to identify someone.

unbelieving -- The Greek word translated as "unbelieving " means literally "no faith," but it meant "not to be trusted" and "mistrustful." The word translated as faithless means literally without faith, but not in the sense of lacking religious faith. It means both untrustworthy and distrusting. It carries a sense that someone who is distrusting is also probably untrustworthy.

generation, -- The word translated as "generation" means "race" or "family." It is the word from which we get "genus" in English. The sense is a "type" or a "specimen" of a particular type Jesus uses it to refer to a type of person, specifically those like the Pharisees.

how -- The word translated as "how long" means "until" but it also means "in order that."

long -- The word "long" here means "when", "at what time", "at some time or other", "at some unknown time, and "at some time in the future."

shall -- This is from the future tense of the following verb.

I -- This is from the first-person form fo the following verb.

stay -- (WW) -- The verb "stay" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. 

with -- (CW)  The word translated as "with" means "towards", "before," "by reason of (for)," and "against."  the sense here is "before." This is not the common "with" that is used in the Matthew version.

you? -- The "you" here is plural, indicating many of Christ's listeners as the object of the verb.

how -- The word translated as "how" means "until" but it also means "in order that."

long -- The word "long" here means "when", "at what time", "at some time or other", "at some unknown time, and "at some time in the future."

shall -- This is from the future tense of the following verb.

I -- This is from the first-person form fo the following verb.

missing "myself"-- (WV) A phrase is necessary because the form of the previous verb is a middle voice, which means that the subject is to  act on "myself," "for myself" or "by myself."

put up -- (CW)  The word translated as "put up" primarily means "to hold up", "to lift up", "sustain", "appear," with a lot of related meaning about supporting yourself or others. This word is only used in this verse and its parallel in Matthew and Luke. This is not the "suffer" seen earlier in Mark 9:12.

with -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "with" in the Greek source

you?  -- The Greek pronoun "you" here is plural and in the form of an indirect object, "to you", "for you", etc. 

Bring -- The word translated as "bring" means "to bear", "to carry", "to bring", "to produce," and "to fetch." It is the base of a lot of words Christ uses commonly, including the words that mean "bring together", "bring to," and "bring through." Its use is more like our use of the word "get."

the -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "the" in the Greek source

boy -- (WW)The word translated as "boy " is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  The word is an object of the verb, what is brought.

to  -- (CW) The word translated as "to" means "towards," "by reason of (for)," "before" both in time and place, "in the presence of," "against," and several other types of "before." This sense here is "before."

me. -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek. An accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

 [5 verses](exclam)  "O" is from o, which is an exclamation "O!" or "Oh!" often used as a mode of address. 

γενεὰ [19 verses](noun sg fem voc) "Generation" is a Greek word that means "race", "family", "offspring," and "age."

ἄπιστος [5 verses](adj sg fem voc/nom) "Faithless" is apistos, which means "not to be trusted" "mistrustful", "incredulous," disobedient, "disloyal," or "suspicious."

ἕως  [63 verses](con) "How" is from heos which means "until", "till," and "in order that" and "up to the point that."

πότε [26 verses](partic)  "Long" is pote, which means "when", "at what time", "at some time or other", "at some unknown time, and "at some time in the future."

πρὸς [92 verses](prep) "With" is pros, which means "on the side of", "in the direction of", "from (place)", "towards" "before", "in the presence of", "in the eyes of", "in the name of", "by reason of", "before (supplication)", "proceeding from (for effects)", "dependent on", "derivable from", "agreeable,""becoming", "like", "at the point of", "in addition to", "against," and "before." 

ὑμᾶς  [210 verses](pron 2nd pl acc) "You" is humas which is the plural form of su the pronoun of the second person, "you." --

ἔσομαι; .[614 verses](verb 1st sg fut ind mid) "Shall I be" is from eimi, which means "to be", "to exist", "to be the case," and "is possible." (The future form is esomai.)

 

ἕως  [63 verses](con) "How" is from heos which means "until", "till," and "in order that" and "up to the point that."

πότε [26 verses](partic)  "Long" is pote, which means "when", "at what time", "at some time or other", "at some unknown time, and "at some time in the future."

ἀνέξομαι [3 verses](verb 1st sg fut ind mid) "Suffer" is anechomai, which means "to hold up", "to lift up", "sustain", "appear", "show oneself", "stand up", "come forth", "hold on", "keep doing", "hold up", "cease", "hold up what is one's own", "hold oneself up", "bear up", "be of good courage," rarely, "hold on by one another", "hang together," (of events) "arise,""happen," and, metaph., "uphold," and "maintain."

ὑμῶν  [168 verses](pron 2nd pl gen) "You" is from humon, the plural form the pronoun of the second person, "you."

φέρετέ  [15 verses](verb 2nd pl pres imperat act) "Bring " is from phero, which means to "bear", "tarry", "bring", "produce", "fetch, "endure", "suffer", "bring to bear", "lead", "direct", "bear along [of wind]", "offer", "present", "produce", "cause", "adduce", "bring forward", "pay something due or owing", "bring in", "yield as rent [of property]", "apply," and "refer.

αὐτὸν [124 verses](pron/(adj sg masc acc)) "Him" is auton, is the masculine, accusative case of the third-person, singular adjective that is used as a pronoun. The word also means "the same," and "of one's own accord."

πρὸς [92 verses](prep) "With" is pros, which means "on the side of", "in the direction of", "from (place)", "towards" "before", "in the presence of", "in the eyes of", "in the name of", "by reason of", "before (supplication)", "proceeding from (for effects)", "dependent on", "derivable from", "agreeable,""becoming", "like", "at the point of", "in addition to", "against," and "before." 

με.[49 verses](noun sg masc acc) "Me" is me, which means "I", "me", and "my". -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek.

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